(Red) Senshi and being a "leader"

Discussion in 'Henshin Justice Unlimited' started by kuroihikari, May 10, 2011.

  1. kuroihikari

    kuroihikari Member

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    One thing I really liked when Gokaiger started was that we were finally back to a Super Sentai where the red one actually feels like a leader.

    This is part of the reason why I had a hard time finishing Magiranger and have put off Goonger and Goseiger for awhile. I find it sort of unbelievable that the person who leads them around in battle is a near-immature goof-off outside. Dekaranger and Gekiranger had the same problem but Banban became awesome during the last quarter of the series, and Jan had a sort-of-believable rivalry with Rio, with Rio doing most of the work.

    For the same reason, it's why I could feel Takeru and the rest of the team's heartbreak when Kaoru was introduced, and also the sense of desperation when Satoru was gone.

    How about you guys? How does the character of the "red ranger" affect your viewing of the series?

    On a side note, I have this slight peeve with team members who are characterized as being the best in fighting, but the actual fighting shows the red senshi getting all the good parts anyway (I'm looking at you, Landick siblings).
     
  2. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    I will never understand this attitude that Red Rangers have to fit a conventional hero mode, or that they must be MANLY-MAN "alpha male" types and no other character role will do. TimeRed, GaoRed, AbaRed, GoseiRed, Red Hawk, MegaRed and many others weren't macho tough guys, but were still awesome
     
  3. zenieth

    zenieth Member

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    pretty sure that's not at all what he is saying.
     
  4. NateRiver

    NateRiver Welcome

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    :laugh:
     
  5. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    GoseiRed is worth more than any BoukenRed, ShinkenRed, GokaiRed, or any other swaggering tough-guy wannabe in Sentai. That act is just so tired and overdone

    That's pretty much the sum of how he defines a "leader" above
     
  6. kuroihikari

    kuroihikari Member

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    GoseiRed wasn't near awesome at all. The only part of him that was good was that he had insight that nobody else had. The times he wasn't using that insight he was annoying as heck. GaoRed and Abared maybe.

    Besides, I'm not talking a single 'conventional hero mode' here. BoukenRed and ShinkenRed have entirely different motivations and leadership styles, for example.


    EDIT: Or could this opinion be a gender thing? Just like shounen and shoujo.
     
  7. urugoji

    urugoji New Member

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    I agree with this. For me, it's not so much that the Red has to be tough and macho, but he should have the strongest morals and values, or at least a character that the other team members can look to for trust and inspiration.
     
  8. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    Why was he "annoying"? Just because he doesn't fit the standard Red Ranger image?

    Why are they popular in fandom? Because they both represent (albeit taking a different approach to it) the role of the chest-beating "alpha male" stereotype that fanboys want to be, and thus praise because they think that by gushing over the character enough they can become like him
     
  9. zenieth

    zenieth Member

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    Pretty much isn't. I doubt he has a problem with a goof ball red. He has a problem with a red that is supposed to be the leader and only ever shows any hint of it in the monster of the week fight.
     
  10. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    The Red Ranger is not always the leader, though. Four series have had a leader that wasn't Red. Some of them have no leader at all. He may be the protagonist/main hero but he doesn't always have to be in charge
     
  11. kuroihikari

    kuroihikari Member

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    No. It's because in battle the group follows his back, when outside of battle he's the one they're babying (and in some episodes even bullying). That's inconsistency there and that makes it unbelievable and thus annoying.

    Neither of them really are 'chest-beating'. For a chest beating hero a more apt example would be AbareKiller, GoseiBlack, DekaBlue, GoOnSilver or even Rio.

    True. It was spefically mentioned in Dekaranger and Gekiranger for example.

    However, in battle it's almost always him leading the charge, and in all the series the ending revolves around him leading the way. So it does seem like he's the leader only in battle and it simply loses its believability there.
     
  12. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    It's no more inconsistent than Marvelous. Sure, the team are behind him (like they were ultimately behind GoseiRed, and Go-onRed) but out of battle they generally have to baby him, because he behaves like an irresponsible child much of the time

    Go-on Silver? Do you mean Gold?
     
  13. kuroihikari

    kuroihikari Member

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    True. On the other hand, it's explicitly shown that the Gokaigers basically mostly just tag along to wherever Marvelous goes. And do whatever Marvelous does just because he says so. That's not the case with GoseiRed and GoOnRed.

    Yes, that, sorry.
     
  14. Lynxara

    Lynxara Nice post!!

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    It's easy to confuse Red being strongest for Red being the leader, but it's really two different concepts. Red is always central because he's the mascot and he will be best at something.

    So if he's not the one in charge, he'll be the best fighter or have the most courage or be a chosen child of destiny or have the greatest spirit or something like that.

    Leadership is often not part of the deal anymore, at least not explicitly. I think this is because Sentai has shifted to a younger demographic since the 80s and early 90s.

    When you're going for a 3-to-6 audience, a leadership role is seen as a parental role. So a Red who's too much in charge will be hard to identify with, with the kids viewing him as a stand-in for their dad instead.

    Trying to avoid that psychology in very young viewers is how you get characters like Kai, who are strongest when the cool fighting stuff begins, but then depicted as basically a little boy in the rest of the narrative.
     
  15. kuroihikari

    kuroihikari Member

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    Good points. Maybe I can learn to appreciate it in terms of that analysis of the demographic.

    On that note, though I think it would be better seen though if the real leaders would actually seem to step up their act (like DekaPink and GekiYellow for example). In some cases they don't even have a designated leader, which is simply bad organizational skills (Yeah, I know its a kids show).
     
  16. Loghorn

    Loghorn Lurker

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    *Spoilers, maybe*

    While true, the red Sentai Senshi heroes, regardless whatever they were leaders or not, are the main protagonists/main heroes focus of sentai like you said earlier, except for:

    1.) Time Fire - He's an extra senshi member of Timeranger,
    2.) Kabuto Raijer - He's really either crimson or maroon colored & is a side sentai member of Hurricanger,
    3.) Wolzard Fire - Same as with Kabuto Raijer in being either crimson or maroon colored, except that he's considered an auxiliary hero, as shown in one of the pictures with the other auxiliary heroes/heroines of the upcoming Gokaiger Vs. Goseiger 199 Hero Battle movie,
    4.) Princess Kaoru - Even though she is important storywise in Shinkenger, she's only been in action for like, 4 episodes of Shinkenger & that Takeru has been in Shinkenger the most; plus only recently been in the two episodes of the Shinkenger Tribute episode of Gokaiger (only because that the actor of Takeru was busy with other roles, etc.), which is why she's considered an auxiliary heroine, as also shown with Wolzard Fire along with the other auxiliary heroes/heroines in that same picture of the upcoming movie that I just mentioned, &
    5.) Aka Red - Only played once in Boukenger Vs. Super Sentai, & has only been shown in a flashback in episode 2 of Gokaiger so far.

    So there you have it. :)
     
  17. Lynxara

    Lynxara Nice post!!

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    Blame Timeranger for this. In Timeranger the designated leader was Pink and she lead the living hell out of that team. Perhaps not coincidentally, Timeranger holds the record for all-time worst Sentai toy sales.

    That said, you might want to take a look at Megaranger. As I recall, it really plays up the tension between Black, the actual leader, and Red, who is something of a goofball with delusions of grandeur.

    I thought Goseiger just about got away with this by doing an episode that acknowledged that any one of the characters explicitly being the leader would lead to disaster. The same episode also acknowledges that Alata leads, but in a way that relies on his team members not realizing that he's leading them.

    That episode is kinda weird, though. The pre-release materials for Goseiger specified that Blue was going to be the leader and the early episodes seem to bear this out... and then that entire idea seems to go away in Goseiger's extremely unfortunate second arc.

    Where did you get this idea? He's not even part of their organization, he works for a different group entirely. He's also only in the last arc of the show. He does try to throw his authority around, but I really don't remember him acting like he was the team leader.

    IIRC, once Kabuto Raijer and Kuwaga Raijer join the team, they acknowledge Hurricane Red's authority. Well, insofar as anyone in Hurricanger does. If I was going to argue someone besides Red was in charge in Hurricanger, it would probably be Oboro or her dad.

    I wouldn't think she counted, if only because her story arc ends with her... acknowledging and reinforcing that Takeru, the Red we've spent the series with, is the actual leader of the team.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2011
  18. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    I wonder if it's just because she was a Pink? Gekiranger also had a female leader and poor toy sales, but since Jan was THE be-all and end-all of that show and Ran did not really act like the leader, maybe she wasn't the problem
     
  19. Lynxara

    Lynxara Nice post!!

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    It's possible. It'd be interesting to look at toy sales figs purely for shows that had a designated non-Red leader.

    That said, knowing that Gekiranger and Timeranger both did it should speak volumes about why more shows don't do it. :p
     
  20. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    I think a male non-Red leader would go down better than a female non-Red leader, but doubt Toei will try it any time soon. (In Goseiger's case they seem to have been planning to, then abandoned the idea ...)
     

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