Many many flaws of KR OOO

Discussion in 'Henshin Justice Unlimited' started by Kamen Rider IXA, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. Kamen Rider IXA

    Kamen Rider IXA Lurker

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    I know, it’s pretty unpopular opinion, but I consider Kamen Rider OOO to be the weakest main entry in the franchise. Not that to say it’s the worst tokusatsu ever made (I’ll probably put it on the same level as Go-Busters, which I don’t really like, but still at least take over either K-series of Sentai). I like Kobayashi’s writing, I think Takebe as a producer is all over the place, but she had her successes, but what their combination created with Go-Busters and OOO utterly puzzles me.

    First of my problems is just how unimaginably boring and uninspired show feels. It has backstory with medieval roots, creation of artificial life-forms and concept of losing yourself in greed, yet none of those things are really touched upon in the interesting way. It’s all same old “don’t lose your heart/soul over unimportant things” morality that Den-O already had more than enough. I can forgive some things in Den-O, since from early on it was obvious that show never really intended to go anyway (I do feel it deserves every trashing it can get over poor world-building and handling of Yuuto’s story though), but unlike Den-O, OOO narrative is there right in front of us. We know who the good guys are, we know who the bad guys are, we know what Greeed want, so why are we spending so much time on pointless victims of the week? Is that really the best story we can tell with these characters? Is show even trying to tell a good story? I think OOO has easily the worst “run of guest characters” in the franchise (not to mention one of the longest in Heisei era), and coming out after W, which in turn had the single best, shows how dull and by the numbers bulk of OOO is. And every single mystery show DID have (like Kougami Foundation) ended up disappointing (like that awful King Medal Ex Machina near the end). Main characters aren’t interesting either. Shu Watanade plays Eiji in extremely obnoxious way which only add problems to Eiji’s paper-thin character. He has the exact same problem as Godai. He’s too unbelievably pure and doesn’t seem to take events of the show seriously all that much. There are too many situations where his optimism comes off unrealistic (along with his endless “tomorrow pants” gimmick). For a show about dangers of greed, it would have been better to have a self-centered MC like Ankh slowly developing and evolving into more altruistic character. I admit I liked a few scenes with him loosing things like his taste, but it wasn’t enough to make character interesting, came in way too late and the entire Eiji-Greeed subplot ended on a disappointment as well.

    I like Ankh more. Ryosuke Miura is great and the best part of the show for me, but most of time he behaves like a stereotypical tsundere. His relationship with Eiji is very much a retread of Shinji/Ren and Ryotaro/Yuuto dynamic and because Eiji is such a passive character, their bickering isn’t nearly as interesting as what Shinji had with Ren back in the day. I don’t really buy Ankh’s development as well. As show points out early on, he doesn’t underestimate humans to begin with, so there is not much room for him to change really. Because dynamic between Eiji and Ankh is so same-y for most of the series, those last 10 or so episodes don’t hit nearly as hard as they should be. His entire motivation for betraying King is left for the novel, which I’ll never read because spending 40 episodes of pointless things without addressing basics like this is pure bullshit.

    Birth is probably one of the worst second Riders in the franchise, both design and story-wise. I expected show to connect him to Black Medals in some way (maybe a cool final form?), but “expecting” anything from that show was a mistake. I like Hiroaki Iwanaga, but he got nothing to do here besides more obnoxious jokes and pretty lackluster “betrayal” near the end. Goto feels like a poor man’s Nago. I don’t particular care for him (at least he was smart enough to use freaking Wings), but I do find it funny that Toei tries so hard to forget that he exists (since Date is the go-to guy for Birth in almost all crossover/games appearances). Goto didn’t even appear in OOO x Den-O movie. He might as well be an AU Rider from Decade.

    Greeed belong on the bottom of the barrel franchise villains with pointless monsters like Legendora and other crap people basically forgot about. It’s probably the single worst aspect of the show besides bad MC. They are supposedly all have their style, quirks and personalities, but only Kazari tries to be an active antagonist, and he STILL spends most of the show doing NOTHING besides occasional talks with Maki. His evolution sub-plot is irrelevant to anything (him finding L-Ankh made more impact on the story than his own entire storyline) and he has a crappy ending. Rest of Greed are basically a joke. In another thread, I already mentioned the truly awful “mansion” moment near the end of the series which kills all the tension conflict with Greeed even hypothetically could had, but I still don’t understand why would anyone want to do this thing to your villains. You’d think that they at least will have some sort of dynamic with Eiji, have flesh out his personality and their own. Usual Kamen Rider stuff, you know. Nope. Too much work. Greeed don’t care about Eiji, Eiji don’t really care about Greeed. They don’t even interact with each other properly, only in typical “I’ll defeat youuuuu!” way. Ankh is the one that has all the interactions (Сan we just stop pretending that Eiji is the main hero?), except only interesting bits are between him and Kazari happen at the very beginning In the most obnoxious “we used to be bestest of besties back in the day” way and zero comes from it. Ankh interacts with every single Greeed in the exact same way, it’s dull, unimaginative and boring.

    Finally, there is Maki. I think it’s a good concept for the main villain and I like Yu Kamio here, in Fourze and Akibaranger, but he, once again, has zero chemistry with Eiji and his story drags as well. I really dislike how the entire conflict with Greeed starts to feel irrelevant once purple medals enter the picture and show becomes (still pretty boring) melodrama of Eiji losing his humanity (which has a more disappointing conclusion than similar plot from Kuuga) and Maki sort of decides to become the main antagonist.

    OOO story all around is just rubbish.

    I know there are some pretty bad series in the franchise, but I don’t think there is a single major aspect of OOO I enjoy.
  2. Toku Prime

    Toku Prime Member

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    Ah complaining about OOO. That's basically why I signed up for this forum waaay back when the show was still airing. Excuse me for a moment while I get all nostalgic...


    I've always been of the opinion that OOO got a soft retool halfway through. For most of the first half they really push the idea that Eiji has made a deal with the devil by assisting Ankh, and the two often make it clear that they intend to kill the other as soon as they no longer need their help (which sounds like a season finale battle being foreshadowed if ever I saw it!).

    Then about the time that the only full combos Eiji can use are TaJaDor and ShaUTa, the show suddenly seems to lose all it's momentum and wallows around a bit feeling sort of directionless while they get the 40th anniversary two-parter out of the way. Then when it starts up again they're like "Eiji and Ankh are best friends really. They're practically as close as Phillip and Shotaro were last season. Ankh's just a bit grumpy, that's all!"

    The old "Girls In Trouble" podcast advanced a reason as to why that might be. According to them, Toei started receiving packages in the mail consisting of toy medal sets along with notes from kids saying "when your camera crews next go to film Kamen Rider please give these to Ankh so he won't be so sad anymore". I think Toei realised that they'd totally misjudged how little kids would react to Ankh, and decided that they couldn't keep going on their intended path (i.e. Ankh basically being the final boss) for fear of upsetting a chunk of their audience.

    Of course it's not the only change that we've since learned that they made on the fly (Date was originally intended to die from his brain tumor, the dinosaur Greeed was going to be a separate character and not just Maki, etc etc), but that change in Ankh's role really seemed to send the show off in a whole other direction.
  3. Kamen Rider IXA

    Kamen Rider IXA Lurker

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    Thanks for mentioning that dreadful thing. As if OOO didn't have enough problems without wasting two episodes on pointless tie-in. At least Gaim actually had interesting character development for some of its cast.

    It was framkly only a portion of my complains. I didn't go over how inappropriate Ska was for the soundtrack (which should have incorporated more gothic-esque medivial themes tied to the origin of OOO, but since W won everyone over with jazz, OOO went for the similar gimmick. Except here it doesn't make any sense here). Someone legitametly listened to this and went "yes, that's gonna be fighting theme for our main Rider"

    I did like most of actual combo themes, but I think songs would have worked if they all have been sang in Double-Action way by Eiji + respective Greeed like Time Judged All. Maybe Kazari's VA is a terrible singer (it's not like Shu that amazing either. His live perfomance of Got to keep it real was... less than stellar), but they seriously couldn't make Yukana + Watanabe duet for Shauta theme? Then again, almost zero interaction between characters, so you have to make them have a connection in some way for that. That would be weird, right?

    I didn't go over how poorly thought out OOO Combos and Medals abilities were (stuff like Kuwagata head letting you use thunder in any combo, while Sai head... "allows to have a hard and strong head, perfect for headbutts." That's wiki description btw, not mine.
    I didn't go over bullshit of having a million forms but not really showing or using them. Most of random combos aren't special, because they are definition of toy-advertising. Most Rider series would have a decency to at least actually show toys they are advertising and put some bits story behind them. Not OOO though. I didn't go over how bland and boring Tatoba looks (boring black suit with little bits of colour on him). OOO suits aren't amazing, but they are stylish enough and every Combo looks better than Tatoba. Hell, even some Random Combos look better than Tatoba. Even Zi-O OOO Armour went for Super Tatoba look, because there is little to no actual armour on default Tatota. I didn't go over (lack of) explanation about Tatoba and why is it even the combo in the first place (which in net-movies was reduced to "basically don't ask lol" joke). OOO was doing this bullshit way before Zi-O made everyone angry for doing the exact same thing.
    And there is more. With OOO there are always more weird things that make you scratch your head and ask "...why?".

    I don't really buy that Ankh affected the show that much. I mean, yeah, I don't doubt he was (and still is) show's breakout character and people love him. But my problem is that early OOO wasn't an amazing show that got ruined by 2011 earthquake or something else. OOO had its every problem from day 1. Maybe not to full extent, but still. It had bland and forgettable motw episodes, zero interesting things happening with Greeed (I already mentioned the only good bit with Ankh and Kazari), complete lack of tension, overreliance on medals as a plot device (was there a reason why show needed to give Eiji Blue Medals at all, if he wasn't going to use them for another 12 episodes?). Ankh wasn't some shady manipulator (as cool as that would have been). Show needed to create an air of mystery around him for that (AT LEAST like Den-O did with older Yuuto Sakurai), but OOO wasn't capable of taking anything seriously. Ankh already had "an edgier Ren" written all over him and I don't doubt direction show was going with him (which is more or less what we ended up with). "Deal with devil" angle was dropped almost instantly and Ankh had shown a form of concern over Eiji as early as OOO using full combos. Series was too afraid to actually go places with Ankh and flesh out different sides of his character (first Bird Yummy two-parter is the prime example of that).
    I think I would have preffered the idea of Eiji loosing control and becoming the ultimate force of destruction with Ankh ending up as the one who has to defeat him. It would have been right up with Kobayashi style of unconvential endings and I would at least respected OOO for having balls to pull something like this.
    But I don't believe OOO ever had any big plan behind it (in fact, the only time a Takebe series felt coherent was Gaim. Den-O, Kiva, Go-Busters, Ninninger - they all feel just as directionless as OOO). Dinosaur Greeed actually is my strongest argument for that. It's one thing for a character to do a 180 like Goto, but loosing THE ENTIRE CHARACTER along the way? I'm not sure how one does that.
  4. Japaneseseriesfan

    Japaneseseriesfan A simple passerby...

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    I actually didn't have much of a problem with the way OOO mixed and matches his many forms. Sure, I have some gripes about how these forms were implemented and ultimately used, but I thought it was a pretty good thought process in terms of OOO being some kind of almighty ruler over all life forms in a sense, so it kind of makes sense that he's able to mix and match them as he pleases like that. My problem is that there's hardly any symbolic or metaphorical meaning to them. Even the main combos have almost nothing to do with them, except for that painting of the Dinosaurs in the evolution painting Dr. Maki had which pretty much said that we were gonna get a Dinosaur themed final form.

    I didn't have a problem with Godai in Kuuga, in fact he was kind of my role model for a long while, even today, I strive to be something like that, giving people occasional thumbs up just to cheer them on and playing with little kids I run into like my neighbors kids or kids of friends, mentors or relatives, or sometimes even strangers whom I just happen to have an interaction with to cheer them up with juggling skills I picked up or any other skills I learned along the way. I understand that type of character isn't considered "good, layered, nuanced style of writing", but it's got simplistic enough morals behind it that making that practice of being that way kind of hard in real life, which is why I liked Eiji the way he was. They tried making him more flawed, and sure, there are times where it doesn't work, but there are also times where it kind of does. He's selfish about being selfless. Quite a good contradiction to work as a basis for his greed. The problem is, most of his villainous counterparts, and even Ankh to an extent doesn't offer much of a contrast to his character and not a lot he can play off, which is why I kind of give Shu Watanabe a little more credit in the sense that he played the part he was supposed to, what with how aimless the show felt at times.

    I do agree with how the "victim of the week" was annoying as hell. I never understood why they never went straight out and fought OOO like an ongoing arc thing. Maybe it's because they wanted to save all the Greeeds gaining their complete forms in a close proximity of episodes during the end, and that scene somehow motivated them to scatter up the development (or lack thereof) that much. I think the point was made that they were much more dangerous than Yummies and OOO was going to have a hard time unless he had the main combos or mastered his abilities, which is something he never proactively sought out to do to begin with. He's basically discount Godai with more comedic timing and... well, I actually didn't mind the "tomorrow's underwear" running gag though. I thought it made his character unique in a way, although not all that out there.

    It was his backstory that kind of got to me, that at that point I KNEW it was poorly hamfisted in, but it made some sense, kinda, but also not. Like... he's some rich kid who wanted to prove he wasn't a spoilt brat by doing good deeds. Like sure, but like, most rich kids who want to prove that they aren't spoilt either do it half heartedly or all the way, which is something he kind of is stuck in between about. There are times where Eiji seems too careless and carefree, and there are other times where he's just gone way to serious too fast and too soon. Almost like there was no transition from one emotion to the next, just "script says this, I gotta do this", which is kind of... the wrong way to go about when acting. You've got to weave those two emotions together somehow without dropping the ball on one and then turning into another. I don't think the scripts helped Shu in that regard, but people like to cite Gentarou's actor as being able to sell just about any dumb shit in Fourze, that's why he's a good actor, so I guess that's a thing, but I'm more of the opinion that it's easier to play dumb and stupid, but with a heart of gold like Gentarou than it is to tackle the kind of character that Eiji was supposedly meant to be. Humans already laugh and smile nervously when they say something stupid, and a lot of people pass off what they really mean as "I was joking, just kidding, don't take it too seriously, I didn't mean it lol" etc, so it's not hard to get into that airhead type of character.

    I also have some problems with his design, but it's actually kind of nice to draw. Like, I don't have the problem with the black per se, but more of the fact that it looks like he's wearing all rubber outside of the helmet. I can't take that seriously. The black's fine if you apply different tones to it and made the armor into more pieces, and instead of just this round circular thing you put on the torso to make up for the armor.

    I didn't like Hina though. Her super strength came only for comedic purposes or when the plot demanded her be the deus ex machina to get them through some bullshit, which I don't think was a lot even, which makes you question... like why? I didn't get the point of it, and I don't think I will.

    Did I mention PuToTyra is kinda ugly? Seriously? He looks more like a Sentai more than ever. His white undersuit was like meant to show a difference between this form and the normal black undersuits, but Jesus, talk about jarring. And his weapon was just a glorified toy, although it is pretty cool to just grab it out of the ground like that. Which makes me wonder about the possible explanations for why the axe/cannon materializes whenever he digs his hand into the ground, but that's just me. Also, the fact that this was the "final form" of the series, they made sure not to mix and match it with any other forms. I mean, they could have done the Tajadol thing, where that had it's own headpiece, but I suppose that's asking too much.

    Also, all those candroids weren't really useful, and neither was all those RideVendors really. Like, it makes you wonder what the heck Kougami was thinking if they're only powered by Cell Medals by investing that much. Also, Gotou showed no remorse about the people who all died in like the first episode trying to fight the Greeed, which I think is like the only episode they killed in Grongi style, other than that they just started spamming Yummies. Gotou was just useless...
  5. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Member

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    If the whole thing had been W, OOO, Fourze, and Gaim, then yes, I would consider OOO to be the weakest. However, Wizard, Drive, Build, Ghost, Ex-Aid, and Zi-O exist with Zi-O, Ghost, and Wizard being some of the worst Kamen Rider series out there.

    OOO is exceptionally flawed as I hated how the annoying puppet guy took the center villain stage away from Ura out of the blue, but it still had a solid finale and the characters were solid overall. Not to mention I think it has the best henshin gimmick of them all.
  6. raden238

    raden238 Member

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    I actually enjoyed OOO. The first 40 episodes got me hooked. I liked the idea of having The Greed and Eiji fighting over the medals. It actually made me want to watch the next episode. Most of the rider shows that have gimmick items, seem to brush off on the gimmick and its just there for the sake of toys. I felt the OOO medals did more and the whole combining animals as a form change was pretty cool. I will say the final arc was disappointing and didn't end strong, Dr Maki sucked. The ending was too predictable. First half of the show was great.

    I remember reading something saying that originally Date was going to die and that Goto was going get the Birth Mantle through that. Which explains the brain cancer subplot Date had. But fans loved him Date so much, they didn't kill him off and instead created Birth Prototype.
  7. Shogun_Master

    Shogun_Master Why is every good TV show Cancelled

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    And the reward for the saddest thing I've heard today (on so many levels) goes to...

    Anyway, I didn't have as big of a problem with OOO, but I admit that it really went nowhere. Honestly, out of all the seasons that I've seen so far, the worst for me have been Agito, W & Fourze. (I still haven't finished Wizard yet. I'm still stuck just after Beast's introductory arc.)

    Agito did that whole arch thing that I've never really liked in anything, where the entire series is based around a single mystery & they just keep throwing pointless melodrama at you, needlessly trying to stretch out the time before they reveal what it was that they're hiding, & by the time they finally do it, no matter what it is, it still feels boring and disappointing because of how much they built it up.

    With W, I do absolutely like Phillip, Shotaro & Akiko as characters. They were great actors & played off each other really well. It's rare to pull it off, but sometimes that alone is enough to carry a show (ie Psych) & I'm probably going to end up watching the show again & again, just for those three. The big problem I had with it was that they did set up & build up an actual plot & I really don't feel like they delivered. They kept throwing in a crazy twist every few episodes to make you think something was going to happen, but nothing ever did. Phillip & Shotaro figured out who was behind all of this within the first 15 episodes & did nothing until the 40s. And, when they did finally reveal what had happened & what was behind all of the Gaia-Memory crap, it kind of felt like it introduced more questions for me than it answered. Where did the well come from? Why was Wakana the only family member who didn't get enslaved by it's power? Did Mr. Sonozaki ever once question what was happening to him, or his family? He seemed like he was a pretty nice guy before he became obsessed with the Memory project.

    Fourze should go without saying. Admittedly, after watching the whole thing, it does start to actually feel like a real Rider series somewhere in the 30s & it has it's moments, but that series is hard to watch & it felt like it had such a pointless ending.
    Hangyakuno likes this.
  8. Black Fang

    Black Fang Member

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    What the hell is Build doing on that list? Build is far superior to OOO to nearly every way. Even Ex-Aid, as bad as that show could get, is at least on par with OOO. I agree that Wizard and Ghost are far worse than OOO, though.

    I want to point out another problem with OOO: the suit itself. It's way too "clean" and monocolor for a supposed "chimera" Rider. Plus all of the color it does have is only on the front; the back is so plain it looks neglected. The OOO suit (and for that matter, the Chalice suit in Blade) should have had a more "mutant, monstrous" look, like Gills in Agito or any of the Oni in Hibiki. In that respect the SIC figures look far superior to the show versions. But even then, the totem on the chest isn't that appealing. The torsos should've been more animal like. (A tiger chest/back with fur trim for Tora, a gorilla chest and silverback for Gorilla, scales and dorsal/ventral fins for Unagi, etc.)

    And why was medieval Europe a feature of the plot at all? That was so dumb, especially when you have a belt that's mouthing off in Japanese. The Shogun movie featured feudal Japan; why on Earth didn't OOO originate through Oriental instead of European alchemists?
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  9. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Member

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    I was satisfied with OOO's finale despite my issues with Maki. Build, on the other hand, stretched the final battle out to 10 episodes Drag-onball style to the point where it didn't feel all that satisfying because they had to deus ex Stalk.
  10. Black Fang

    Black Fang Member

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    I might have to rewatch OOO again at some point (though the posts by IXA and JSF describe why I woudn't want to). But I don't remember having the same sense of anticipation or feeling that things are getting intense now, that even the second half of Ex-Aid had once the Rider Chronicle game was mass-produced and the dreary first half of the show was done with.

    Kougami sucked, Maki sucked (I was fine with his doll, but not in the way he kept carrying it around and going insane whenever it got damaged. They could've gone a Scarface from Batman route with that), the Greeds were lame, the ska soundtrack was awful. Even the Medals were too transparent and toyish, instead of looking like solid metal coins like the medals in Zyuranger's Dinobucklers.

    As for the kids' reaction to Ankh, is it an issue of Toei misjudging the audience, or the audience not getting the character?
  11. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Member

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    Thinking about it now, my enjoyment of OOO could also be due to not watching it weekly. I watched W, OOO, and Fourze all right before Wizard premiered, so the only episode I had to wait a week to watch was the Fourze finale. As such, I watched them all one right after the other. In fact, watching Wizard week by week is what started to kill my enjoyment, so maybe I should only watch these shows after they have fully aired...

    I guess we'll see what happens when I can finally bring myself to watch Drive and Ex-Aid in full.
  12. Captain Shark

    Captain Shark Member

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    The notion that Build is superior to any tokusatsu, let alone the third best Kamen Rider entry only after Drive and Skyrider, is simply not in the same plane of reality humans occupy. It is an infection that taints everything it comes into contact with.
  13. Kamen Rider IXA

    Kamen Rider IXA Lurker

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    And what makes OOO so good? Me and other people here made points against OOO. You can adress them or make points in show's defence. I understand why people would like ambitious trainwrecks like Drive and Skyrider way more than them liking what is basically amounts to inferior Den-O.

    There wasn't enough variaty in medals for what. Most of OOO Medals abilities are quite boring and don't mash together well. Not to mention every Greeed has three of the same medals, so instead of exciting new abilities acquiring new medals often feel like padding.

    Threre is nothing wrong with Godai in concept, but parts of Kuuga as a show often feels weirdly disconnected from each other. Characters like Godai need a sense of vulenrability, something to test their belifs. Othwerwise it may seem like they don't take gravity of the sutuation seriously (and Kuuga had plenty of gravity and heavy stuff), so it takes me out of experience. Not to mention character dynamic is important and Godai doesn't really have anything notable with Grongi. I understand that a lot of it was intentional and I think Kuuga mostly works at what it aims to do, but it's not the approach I would have chosen with the Main Character. Arakawa seems to feel similarly by the time he wrote Abaranger, and that's why Ryouga retains everything that was good from Godai and still feels like a strong and believable character.
    Since OOO isn't even a fraction of the show Kuuga was and it doesn't feel anywhere near as sincere, Eiji doesn't come off believable. He's a gimmick character like Main Trio from Go-Busters. Shu Watanabe doesn't sell any (of the very few) scenes of Eiji being angry, confused or conflicted and he mostly stuck with his "sort of selfish nice guy" routine, which feels incredibly forced and one-note. His backstory felt headscratching more than anything and purple medals subplot ended with a whimper as well. I'm struggling to remember any of his "big moments" which landed.

    The thing with Fourze is that Gentaro is consciously not part of the main plot. He's an outside influence that happened to be involved in Kengo storyline with his dad, Zodiarts and other things, but has such a strong presence that he ultimately makes an impact on characters and changes them for the better. I can't say I like Gentaro or this approach much (or rather not in the way Fourze did it), but at least I know where show stands with him and what it wants Gentaro to be. Eiji doesn't have a strong personality like Gentaro, so similar approach of an outsider in Ankh's story just makes him forgettable. Not to mention Gentaro still had more interesting relationships with villains than Eiji (even if they were still far from perfect).

    It's not just ugly. It's one of the blandest Final Forms in the franchise (even though I appreciate that it's not a clusterfuck like some following ones). I wish show used Black Medals for the Final Form instead. With the right approach it could have been Build Hazard-level of cool.

    None of these are even nearly as bad as OOO. Ghost is a trainwreck with obvious production issues, but it has actually interesting concepts (unlike "Den-O rehashing" of OOO), unique and distinctively creative suit designs, one of the more memorable soundtracks in the franchice, likeable (if mistreated) supporting cast. Unlike OOO it has an actual story (albet with a pretty bad finale) and at least a couple of proper character arcs.
    Wizard was mangled by many people in the past (myself included), but it's not really as bad as people make it out to be either. It's basically a Phase 1 series that was made in the wrong time and became yet another victim of post-Den-O state of the franchise.
    Neither is a particularly good series on the whole, but there is still more effort put into tham compared to OOO and they are nowhere near as bad as it or Kabuto.
    Can't say anything about Zi-O for now.
    Rest of the series you mentioned aren't really bad either (except for maybe Drive, but at least Drive proved to me with Gaidens that it was more of a misguided series rather something born out of pure laziness).
    Kabuto and Den-O approach OOO-level of flawed, but since OOO takes the worst elements from both it also takes the "weakest series" cake.

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