Least Favorite Sentai

Discussion in 'Henshin Justice Unlimited' started by HonestHeart17, Jan 31, 2011.

  1. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    That's an entirely empty statement


    It's not your fault that my personal hot button is using "bland" as a catch-all term. Please excuse me while I cry and bang my head

    ... OK, that's done! No, they may not be a "good" comparison, but the Gokaiger girls still had more personality/development.


    I'll get back to you when I've seen it


    Why does "somber" = better? People seem to work around the whole premise that a "serious" tone automatically means something is better, but that's a preference, not a measure of quality


    I agree :/ I think a lot of the hate is down to people thinking it's "too popular" and "should" be criticised (I have seen this outright stated before) and/or expecting it to be something it wasn't ever going to be.
     
  2. Mr. Rhythmic

    Mr. Rhythmic Member

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    No, it isn't. Whether it's a bandwagon or not, that is the general opinion. Doesn't matter the factor.
     
  3. Mr. Rhythmic

    Mr. Rhythmic Member

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    Way to put words in my mouth. No, I didn't say anything to that degree. I'm saying that the poor structure of the series made the show 97% annoying and messy, and would throw in dramatic moments out of nowhere that felt entirely out of place with the rest of the tone.
    "Kamen Rider W" was silly in general, but it worked because it kept the story going, and any of the darker moments felt like natural story progression. I could laugh at the cow hand, and then turn around and be in awe at Accel's struggles. It worked because it didn't just throw poop at the wall in the hopes that something would stick.
     
  4. Aoi Kurenai

    Aoi Kurenai Mad Skillz

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    I think it's easier to look kinder on Gokaiger when you know what it went through behind the scenes and how they basically had that open door for anyone willing to come back. I'm still not fond of the team to any extent, except for Gai, and the villains just felt so lack luster. I've always thought a great anniversary series should have great villains and trading them off to bring back guest stars is a compromise that doesn't sit great with me, but for the chance to see some of the older guys come back? It's not the worst thing in the world

    Though I still wish Flashman and Fiveman managed to get an episode to themselves.

    It's not so much because it's "popular", but a lot of the hate I've seen for the show, and admittedly one of the reasons I have a harder time enjoying it than I might otherwise, is because it's not too structurally different from Goseiger and that show continues to be one of the most maligned. Maybe people forget it because it's been over for a while, but when Gokaiger was on the air? It was the best thing. It was infallible and the gold standard. I think interactions with other people can color personal perspective on a series and I know as fair as I tried to be with the series, it was kind of disheartening to see the positive reaction it was getting while people continued to dump on Goseiger.

    Though shows should be criticized, so I don't see anything wrong with that. I actually went on a recent rewatch of the series a few months ago and a lot of my own personal criticisms still hold up. I don't think it's the worst series but it's definitely one I have a lot of issues with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  5. Araki

    Araki always henshining'

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    as far as i see it still is that way in most places except for HJU lol. but then again HJU dumps on everything not named Kamen Rider Double:laugh:
     
  6. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    That's the other common thread of Gokai-hate: the villains. What difference does it make if ONE show doesn't have "good" villains? Sentai is about its heroes, and ideally you want kids to look up to those heroes, not root for the bad guys.

    Most of the negative comparison I've seen of Goseiger, at least during its run, was to Shinkenger. It's part of the reason I hated Shinkenger for a long time, and while I've got over that and like it a lot now, it still annoys me that some people think the Shinkengers are the ideal heroes and it's somehow bad writing if new teams are not like them.

    When Shinkenger was on the air it was as popular as, if not more so, than Gokaiger and yet you seem to have no problem with the way that some of its fans trashed Goseiger during its run. It frustrates me that people continue to pick on Goseiger for trivial and even insulting reasons such as "the cast is ugly"


    Why? Why is it so important that we nitpick and look for details to dislike? Why is it important to us that people can't like something just because WE don't?


    Can you really separate that from your own personal feelings, though?

    An example for me: I like most of Gekiranger, but I will always resent it for the praise Rio and Mele get, because I strongly feel that a show shouldn't focus on villains at the expense of the heroes and thus I hate Rio and Mele. No matter how much people talk about how great they are, no matter the strength of the story or characters, I will always have some bad feeling about Gekiranger because of Rio and Mele. I like Long, but would I have liked him so much if I weren't rooting for him to destroy them? I don't know, it's more to do with my personal reactions than anything that happened in the show. I suspect your views on Gokaiger run along similar lines
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  7. Mr. Rhythmic

    Mr. Rhythmic Member

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    Nitpicking would be if I didn't like the costume, so I hated the show. Pointing out how the show did not entertain me at all due to its unevenness and awful villains is simply explaining why I did not like the show.
     
  8. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    I'm speaking in general. I am stating the opinion that watching things with the mentality that criticism is a must and we should constantly look for "flaws" is at best unnecessary, at worst unwise.

    And since your views on the matter are so strong, I'll ask again: In a show for the anniversary of Sentai, which is about its heroes, why is it so wrong to celebrate those heroes at the expense of a strong villain presence?
     
  9. Mr. Rhythmic

    Mr. Rhythmic Member

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    Because it is almost impossible, story-wise, to keep the audience interested if the heroes are in real danger. This concept has been perfected by Sentai before, to a level that it's one of the franchise's greatest assets. "Jetman," "Dairanger," "Shinkenger," "Goseiger," "Zyuranger," "Fiveman," "Bioman," etc. all have the idea of threat. I'm not saying that the villains needed to be memorable, just good enough to give me a reason to why Goseiger use all of their keys and power-ups. Give me a reason why the Sentai teams needed to sacrifice their powers, because I saw no reason with these villains. Villains like Bandora, Dokouku, and even Black Cross felt far more dangerous than them, so why sould they be the ones the Sentai sacrifice to beat? I want to be apart of their adventure, their fun, but I can't do that if I just don't care. Characters like Superman can make or break under this rule, but if you look almost any level of media, this exists in anything of high quality. I need a reason to care, and I honestly didn't.
     
  10. Aoi Kurenai

    Aoi Kurenai Mad Skillz

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    But that doesn't mean the villains have to be uninteresting. There are tons of kids shows out there with three dimensional villains. It doesn't make the heroes look any less heroic, it's just something that gives the series a little more meat. I'm not sure whether or not it's "wrong" that an anniversary show not have strong villains, but that's always a plus. Sentai is all about heroes standing up to a great threat, with something like Gokaiger's premise, I would have liked to have seen a threat worthy of their status.


    The prevailing notion that I've noticed is that Goseiger is sandwiched in between these two utterly amazing series and that somehow makes Shinkenger and Gokaiger themselves even better than they already are. I've pretty much always been bothered by how Goseiger's been trashed on, just because I wasn't vocal about it in the past doesn't negate that. There was a period I didn't talk about it because it was sort of like being a fan of Hibiki while it was airing all over again, it felt like a lost cause.


    I don't really nitpick shows that are popular just because they're popular, I discuss things I don't like about shows and movies whenever I get the urge to do so. We're on a message board. A place where thoughts and opinions are shared among fans of a similar product. There's nothing wrong wanting conversation to go deeper than blanket statements about a show. If it seems like I trash on Gokaiger a lot, well, it's a recent show. Thoughts and emotions over the show are still going to be fresh in people's minds. That and the Gokaiger/Goseiger/Shinkenger sandwich of fan reaction just brings out weird feelings.


    I at least try to. I know that, structurally, Goseiger has a ton of flaws all over the place and a pretty bad cast. Despite that? I still love the show.
     
  11. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    Fair enough


    It's like a repeat performance of when Go-onger was considered the horrible series in between super awesome Geki and Shinkenger. Gekiranger was the current Sentai when I started watching, and although I wasn't heavily into the fandom at that time, it seems people have become a LOT more negative about the shows that have aired since then.


    I was speaking in general. I think it's ... at best a little strange, when people insist everything should be criticised. A couple of days ago I was on a site where someone said something like "no one talks about RPM's flaws" and even though I can't stand that show ... my reaction was still, do they have to? Is it mandatory now?


    Same here, I know people think it's shallow to like something because it's cute/uplifting/cheerful, buuuuut I love it anyway :anime:
     
  12. Fantasy Leader

    Fantasy Leader Member

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    Gokaiger's reception with fans seem to hinge heavily on one's feelings towards the villains.

    People that like Gokaiger love it for all the wonderful veterans that they managed to bring back, giving it a very special feel. The Zangyack weren't offensive in any way, so they're able to look past them.

    People that didn't like Gokaiger dislike it for how little the villains did and how they didn't feel like much of a threat. They wanted a threat that was worthy of 35 years of Sentai, and how they all had to sacrifice their powers to try and beat them.

    The show is very much a double-edged sword. You either love it for the veterans, or hate it for the lack of great villains. There rarely ever seems to be any middle ground with Gokaiger.


    Gekiranger is kind of the same way too where it's reception seems to hinge heavily on Rio and Mele. In fact, many fans seem to even debate over whether Rio and Mele classify as villains or anti-heroes.

    Most people that like Gekiranger are usually those that love Rio and Mele. Rarely are there fans that love it for the five heroes.

    For the people that don't like Gekiranger or have issues with it are usually people that don't like Rio and Mele.

    Much like Gokaiger, Gekiranger also seems to be a double-edged sword. In Gekiranger's case, it's Rio and Mele, whereas for Gokaiger, it's the Zangyack. Much like Gokaiger, there's rarely ever any middle ground when it comes to Gekiranger as well.

    The two shows are like opposites in a way. The popular opinion for Geki is to love Rio and Mele, whereas the popular opinion for Gokai is to hate the Zangyack. Whereas a few solid number of fans feel strongly about hating Rio and Mele, as well as giving the Zangyack leeway. Like I said before, there rarely ever seems to be any middle ground when it comes to both Gekiranger and Gokaiger, due to how divided fans can be with their villains (or anti-heroes if that's what you classify Rio and Mele as).
     
  13. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    It's hard to dissociate Gekiranger from Rio and Mele simply because the show promoted them so hard, at the expense of the heroes. People complain about the Gekirangers being "bland", well, why is that? It's because Rio and Mele leeched screen time and development that could have gone to the heroes. GekiViolet and Chopper have no real purpose as Rangers at all, since it was established that only Jan could defeat Rio and only the core three could defeat Long. Jan is the most rounded and "developed" of the heroes, but people tend to dislike him because the fandom tends to be very negative about the "screaming" Red Ranger type.

    It's very rare for me to like villain characters (with a few exceptions) so Gokaiger's lack of a strong villain presence never bothered me, I watched to see past heroes and didn't want bad guys interfering with that. I did enjoy Basco, though.
     
  14. Fantasy Leader

    Fantasy Leader Member

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    I actually liked how Violet and Chopper were handled. Violet was already planned out from the start as he had his connections to Retsu, Rio, and Miki. Chopper was mentioned as early as the Kageki arc, and I think what he brings is more world building to the show, which I think is fine. Sure, their purpose might not be as important as the core trio, but I think it works in the way that the additions of Gou and Ken didn't ruin the chemistry that the three had, which is something that additional rangers can tend to do. I found both characters likable so I was quite pleased with it all. Yeah, they could've had a bit more to do, but I ain't complaining.

    Anyway, it seems like you're on the side that isn't particularly for the villains, lazy. Thus, Gokai probably comes off as better to you than Geki does. Again, there rarely ever seems to be any middle ground when it comes to this.
     
  15. KingRanger

    KingRanger Banned

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    When was chopper mentioned at all before the episode he came into it? I don't recall them saying anything at all leading into him.
     
  16. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    I think it illustrates the difference between English-speaking and Japanese fandoms, in a way. Speaking in broadly general terms, English-speaking fans tend to favour strong villain presence, sometimes to the point of preferring the villains to the heroes. They generally prefer Sentai to have a more "serious" tone and to appeal to older viewers as well as kids. These are the main reasons that a lot of people give for liking Gekiranger and Go-Busters.

    In Japan, older fans complain about Go-Busters because "Sentai should be for kids", and they don't like it when they think a show is making out the villains to be more important than the heroes - including Rio and Mele and even Brajira in Goseiger. They also seem to react badly to shows that they feel are "too different", whereas many English-speaking viewers expect novelty every year and hate to feel that Toei is "playing it safe" even when that's what makes sense from a business perspective. It's like polar opposites
     
  17. Amon

    Amon Member

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    I haven't seen all of the Sentai shows yet, from what I've seen that Goseiger comes in mind. Most of the characters in that show come off very bland in my opinion.
     
  18. Fantasy Leader

    Fantasy Leader Member

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    Just rewatched the eps. Sorry, my mistake, I mistook a line. Still, my point stands about Gou and Ken.
     
  19. Fantasy Leader

    Fantasy Leader Member

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    Pretty much yeah.

    Unlike Gekiranger and Gokaiger, would you say shows like Megaranger, Gingaman, and Abaranger actually strike a stronger balance with how the heroes and villains are handled? Cause it seems like those three shows have less of a divided fanbase, and they all aired during the time when Sentai was starting to veer more away from the villain focus shows of the Changeman-Kakuranger run.
     
  20. lazycoconut

    lazycoconut I liked him when he wasn't a god

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    I personally think so, but I'd be interested in others' opinions. I notice that on the current "rate Sentai from your most to least favourite" thread, a couple of people have expressed negative opinions of Megaranger, but Gingaman and Abaranger do well on most lists
     

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