Discussion in 'Henshin Justice Unlimited' started by HonestHeart17, Jan 31, 2011.
I wouldn't call marrying someone five minutes after confessing your "love" for them, in an eye-bleeding magical ceremony that puts Rainbow Brite to shame, a very adult thing to do
Lunagel crashing said wedding was the only good part about that scene. <<
According to this thread in which Aoi Kurenai posted in here, between Magiranger to Goseiger, Go-Onger winded up having the lowest ratings at 5.1%. Gekiranger comes in second lowest with 5.2%.
On the same thread on a different page here, KouAidou has a chart based on ratings & toy sales starting from Jetman to Goseiger (look for his post at the very bottom of the page & click on to where it says "click to show hidden content."
Thanks for posted that. I never liked Go-Onger anyway.
Well I haven't seen each and every Sentai, so my opinion might be faulty, BUT!
The Sentais that I have seen had humans as heroes, but now we had angels.
Something new, that's great! Fans love new stuff.
They look like humans, but get a pair of wings now and then. OK! But with them being all high and mighty angels-in-training they always seemed, well, wimpy. Looking back to Shinkengers we had scenes where we saw them training. They were normal humans fighting the good fight and they gave off a much stronger Sentai wibe than Goseigers. Takeru had to work his *ss off to master the Kabuto Origami. Gosei Red streched his hand, said a couple sweet words and BAM- instant Miracle Gosei Headders. How about doing some physical exercise guys? I'm sure that couple hours of sword training will help beating Brajira.
So that's my reason.
I think Goseiger was a case of a concept that would work really well for little kids not working for a lot of older fans. This is fine, since a viewer's tastes will naturally change as they get older.
You're really not supposed to identify with the Goseiger characters (though I'm sure some of us did). Most older people who watch super hero stuff really want to identify with the main characters to connect with the power fantasy of being a great hero.
The power fantasy of Goseiger is a different one, that's is very particular to little kids between, say, about 4 and 10. It's the fantasy of having a super-powerful friend who loves you as much as your parents, but treats you like a peer and protects you as a friend would.
Where most Super Sentai teams are straight-up superheroes, Goseiger has more in common with characters like Pete's Dragon, E.T., or Artie, the Strongest Man in the World. The Goseigers are Nozomu's awesome friends who'll watch out for him.
(So I guess they leave at the end, since... most of these characters eventually do leave, to symbolize how the kid hero has gotten old enough to no longer need the "imaginary" friend's help.)
*Spoilers, I think*
That's one of the reasons why I keep thinking to myself, that if there were to be an actual Vs. duel battle between the Shinkengers & the Goseigers, the Goseigers would easily get their butts handed to them on a silver platter. Why? Because they don't have real experiences in fighting.
The Goseigers couldn't even handle their own MOTW's & their own enemies in their own show without being de-transformed in almost every episode, let alone defeating most of them on ground level (like battling Drake, for example. The Goseigers never stood a chance against him on ground level, & they never even started to beat him on that until he grew bigger. And even then, they were having trouble defeating him with Gosei Great, & they didn't get the upper hand on him until they used Hyper Gosei Great, I believe).
If they couldn't handle them, then I surely doubt that they could handle any of their predecessor sentai teams in a real fight (or probably even their future successor sentai teams like Gokaiger).
My three least favorite Sentai are:
Boukenger: I struggled to not sleep in every episode I watched.
Go-Onger: Lame humor, unlikeable characters and I usually don't like car-based Sentai.
Dekaranger: Boring. Plus, Banban Akaza is easily the worst Red ever.
Liveman- I hate every single hero in that show holy moley
Gokaiger- Really lame writing. Almost every guest star inadvertently overshadowed the actual main cast. How does that happen?
Boukenger- Just way too safe. I don't feel like they tried that hard to make it interesting.
I fail to see how ANY sentai fan fan dislike The team in Liveman... That is just... :redface2::sly:
While I don't genuinely hate any series there have inevitably been some series that don't ring as strongly with me. The "plot" (or lack thereof) is usually not an issue for me with toku because I tend to find that each series will usually make up for areas where its lacking by being much stronger in other areas.
For example, Boukenger is one of my personal favorite Super Sentai. A lot of people complain that its plot is bad, and I actually agree for the most part. But the series imo more than makes up for this with some solid design work, all of which is extremely consistant throughout the entire series as well as nailing the Indiana Jones/Adventure Serial vibe its shooting for with nothing short of pinpoint accuracy.
Which is why I have such a problem with Goseiger. The whole project reads very disjointed and muddled. Its not that I hate Goseiger, if anything I pity it as it was so obviously the product of greedy big wigs trying to make a larger profit by incorporating 2 toy gimmicks. Also not unlike Kamen Rider Kiva, I feel that the characters were just exaggerations of personalities from previous series that were expected to be a hit with the kids and kinda backfired.
While most sentai usually only have 1 toy gimmick to work into the plot and design around; Goseiger had to do the same with both cards and headers. I feel like this really brought down the mech designs as they all now had to be covered in big black ports everywhere. The overuse of cards caused the audio in each episode to be just a mess of dialogue, bgm, 5 tensouders and that card scanning sound effect which by episode 5 was driving me up the wall.
Its a shame really because at a base level Goseiger has some really nice things going for it but most of it got squandered.
I put Go-Busters in a relatively similar camp to Goseiger. Its got alot of things that should work, but it just doesn't seem to gel very well. The characters (other than J) don't grab me as anything special. And despite trying spice up the standard sentai formula (which i've been wanting for a while) somehow it just doesn't work for me in the slightest. Its a shame because I want to like it, but I can't find anything that I feel is strong enough to hold onto.
Why do people treat "safe" like a dirty word in this fandom? Sometimes, "safe" is what makes business sense, especially if the last season did poorly; and for an anniversary, it follows that audiences will want to see something quite traditional. Typically, Sentai will do something quite formulaic for an anniversary and then experiment a bit more the next year. "Different" does not equal better.
I also see nothing wrong with characters being "archetypes" as people have complained about elsewhere in this thread. Not every character is a dynamic character, and "character development" should not exist for its own sake. I've mentioned previously that my least favourite series is Magiranger, and it gets a lot of praise for its character writing; but I still didn't find a single one likeable. I'd take supposedly "flat" heroes like the Goseigers over that any day.
One of my least favorites would be Goseiger (SHOCKING, I know). I like the aesthetic of most things just fine, and I like GoseiKnight, but to me, the story was just BORING. It felt like nothing ever happened til the end of a villain faction, then some new faction would appear, and do the EXACT SAME THING. I gave up after the end of the Yuumajuu arc.
Another that I could not really get into was Timeranger, even though I really like Time Force, I just could not get into it's Sentai counterpart.
I've noticed that Timeranger fans tend to dislike Time Force, and vice versa. I wonder if those two shows are just different enough that someone who likes one will see no reason to like the other.
It's pretty reasonable, if you think about it. The Gokaigers were played by starlets who were still clearly very green. They weren't especially good at doing out-of-suit action or emotional scenes.
(Not terrible, mind, just not especially good. Compare a Junya Ikeda out-of-suit fight with a Ryota Ozawa fight and you'll see what I mean. I suggest turning the sound off, since that'll really underscore where the producers are using foley and BGM to cover up unconvincing stunt work.)
Meanwhile, the returning guest stars had all gotten old enough to have a lot more acting experience under their belts, even in the case of guys who'd come out of retirement. They had more life experience to draw upon in playing their roles, and every reason to make a big splash while they had the limelight.
While I loved Gokaiger's guest star parade, I sometimes wonder if it was actually a good idea, from a production standpoint. When I show Gokaiger eps to friends outside the fandom, they always find the guest stars more interesting and get bored during eps with no guest stars.
Because safe tends to be boring to people who watch tons of this stuff. Now, that's not always true. Some people genuinely enjoy seeing familiar elements executed in a new way, and if anything will prefer safe shows to more risky affairs. That's fine. Just, most people don't seem to be wired that way.
That's fine for Toei, but the fans aren't Toei, you know? We aren't obligated to like what is best for Toei's bottom line right now. And if it bores people long enough, they'll drop out of the fandom (for at least awhile). This is why it's best for Toei to not listen to the fans too much, or for the fans to really expect Toei to cater to them.
No, but it'll be more interesting. At least at first.
Do they? I always liked both
That's fair enough
I have to ask, what are older Japanese fans like in this respect? Their tastes seem to be very different sometimes than those of the English-speaking fanbase (e.g. finding Rio and Mele boring, or Goseiger's high audience share with teenagers)
Dairanger - i felt the series was a bit much, it wasn't really that interesting as zyuranger was then again i'm honestly more into mmpr than both of those series.
Boukenger - i fucking love the concepts and designs of this show, but the show is just boring at best
Goseiger - the one thing that got to me by the 5th episode was the inconsistency of the show's editing or just it in general. like how the opening didn't match it's theme song AT ALL, or like in the first few episodes they changed the henshin in less than 3 episodes! i understand boukenger did the same but that wasn't until boukensliver came in, goseiger did it shamefully in the 3rd episode. it's just the visuals in both the show's designs(the headers were just a dumb gimmick) and showcase that just turned me off from the show. and not to mention they went through three different villain factions in one season(it's really a minor compant but i though it didn't need it)
Gokaiger - it's the same opinion i have with boukenger, i love the concepts of the ranger keys but the show is just boring. plus i'm not a big fan of the legend mechas. like how gaolion which is a mecha from a completely different series somehow represents the combination for shinkenger, honestly how does that work!?!
Well, I am totally cheating here, as I just started watching sentai a bit over a week ago. I began with the earliest sentai I could find decent subs for, Sun Vulcan.
It has not been a pleasant ride.
The characters are alarmingly flat and uninteresting, especially the first VulEagle. There's almost no actual plot or progression in the series, you could mix up the order of nearly every episode without losing a hint of coherence, rarely a good sign. Your weekly guest stars regularly get more character development than the main 3(5). Despite being made in the '80s, the music is so '70s its painful (disclaimer: I have never actually been to the '70s). And the action. Oh god the action.
Now the stunt work is fine, and the overuse of things vanishing and reappearing in another spot is irksome but bearable. What kills it is the spectacularly awful editing. Shots don't flow into each other naturalistically, which makes getting a good sense of scene composition a nightmare. And the little thing they do, where they show what seem to be three different takes of exactly the same shot (without even adjusting the camera angle!) in immediate succession, completely snaps my disbelief suspenders, being neither plausible within the reality of the show nor visually interesting outside of it. End result? A painful mess that's very difficult to get invested in. And I still have 10 episodes to go.
I really, really hope Liveman proves better than this.
that was one of the main problems i mentioned with goseiger, if you want to see how bad the editing in goseiger is, you should look up how messy gosei great's finisher is, seeing footage of the finisher before the show started(without the stuff they added in) looked really great, but in the show they completely rushed it so it shows a cgi gosei great rushing to the screen and then cuts to the slash of mentioned footage from the pre-promos. at least with sun vulcan, technology wasn't at it's best but was good for it's time. but there was no excuse with what goseiger did .
I know a few people that like both. And I liked Timeranger just fine, I just couldn't get into the series enough to follow it.
(Also, I made the 100th reply. This makes me feel special!)
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