2018-2019 Kamen Rider

Discussion in 'The ORB - News & Rumors' started by Toku Prime, May 7, 2018.

  1. Hangyakuno

    Hangyakuno Lurker

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    Nope, when anyone transform into rider, he/she can do martial art in limited extend. This is fictional and everything can happen, Rider suit give anyone magical power and fighting prowess they never have. Especially Heisei Rider consist mostly young person which have peaceful life suddenly have to fight against monster.
    Even at first they fighting poorly, after they get the suit, they will and have to show some martial art that they shouldn't have.

    Atleast Tsukuyomi have guts to fight monster in frontline even though most of it is fight to retreat. Not just shooting, she did kick tackling a monster before. Think of it as Rider power give her the strength to move and do anything she can't do before.
    Fighting style? Even if you have it but your body is weak to make it useful and you have a gun at your disposal, you will choose ranged battle especially if you against monster which can easily subdue martial artist. Now what if you have anything you need to make your martial art to be useful, like from a belt and a watch?
     
  2. Japaneseseriesfan

    Japaneseseriesfan A simple passerby...

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    You do realize that the whole "they get a magical suit and is suddenly able to fight" part of fiction is total bullshit right? Like, as much as I love Tokusatsu or anything Superhero related, that's the one part I have a problem with.

    Just because it's fiction and "anything can happen" doesn't mean it HAS to throw away logic. And just because it's fiction, doesn't mean it can't be good fiction (that's why literature classes are important). I'm not calling out Tsukuyomi only. This was just the last straw for me, in a sense when it comes to the amount of bullshit they do. The suit doesn't make you have style though. All it does is enhance your power. At least, with a character like say, Wataru, it makes sense in Kiva that he has some supernatural strength, and that the Kiva armor is more of a mystical transformation that alters his body. Plus, he's had it for years. Tsukuyomi is just a human with time powers. That's kinda it.

    Let's take a look at all the Heisei examples then;
    Kuuga - Godai has over 2000 skills, pretty sure some of that included mastering some type of martial arts (he did Kendo for Titan form's abilities and even practiced jumping and spinning mid air kick)
    Agito - It's a mystical/spiritual power that takes over you, Shouichi even showed signs of being overtaken by some kind of "instinct" that is almost like a personality change.
    Gills - Ryo was an athlete swimmer, who also picked fights with people a lot. His fighting style as Gills makes sense since it combines his pain with his animalistic behavior.
    G3 - Hikawa is a trained police officer.
    Another Agito - Like the previous Agito Riders, supernatural powers and it seems that anyone who becomes an Agito has the animal-like instinct to fight.
    G4 - He's a soldier.
    Ryuki - Shinji isn't an expert fighter. He slowly grows. Just look at his initial appearance.
    Knight - Ren probably a punk much like Ryo.
    Zolda - He doesn't do a lot of hand to hand combat either.
    Scissors - it's been established he's a serial killer. Dude probably knows enough ways to overpower enough people, doesn't mean he's great at it. but swinging a claw around as your weapon doesn't require much training.
    Gai - Makes no sense, but okay, Ryuki needs padding to market 13 toys.
    Raia - Makes no sense still, but okay, 13 Rider toys.
    Ouja - Asakura is pretty much a violent person, I'm sure this is perfectly valid.
    Verde - dude's a rich businessman. I'm sure he has access to trainers and what not. Still doesn't excuse a lot of the stunts he's able to pull off.
    Tiger - Houjo was all "I'm a hero stuff" it's not crazy to think he'd actually dedicate his time to training.
    Imperer - Another hard case to believe, but hey, 13 toys.
    Femme - okay, I'm inclined to believe it in a sense, she's been shown to be kinda street smart and clever, but her actions are all too bombastic either.
    Ryuga - Mirror world character, he's not human.
    Odin - Overseer of the whole thing, plus he barely has a style.
    Faiz - Takumi was established as an adroit. He picks up things easily. Plus, as an Orphenoch he's probably fought his fair share, and as a human too.
    Kaixa - Kusaka trained a lot for excellence. Valid.
    Detla - Yeah, Mihara kinda isn't. Cause Mihara, but at least his fighting style reflects his personality too. It's not as graceful as Kitasaki.
    Psyga - He's part of Smart Brain. Pretty sure he's up there in getting his routine, plus Orphenoch.
    Orga - Kiba spent his whole life fighting after becoming an Orphenoch. It's not far of a stretch.
    Blade - Trained by Board.
    Garren - Trained by Board.
    Chalice - Undead, born to fight.
    Leangle - Mutsuki was under the Spider Undead's influence. A lot of that probably bled into his own personality as well.
    Glaive - Tachibana's new division of BOARD, of course he'd be trained. Plus Albino Undead.
    Larc - BOARD.
    Lance - BOARD.
    ALL Hibiki Riders - they have been shown time and time again that they train.
    Kabuto - Tendou is Tendou.
    TheBee - all it's users have been shown that they have some level of training.
    Drake - not sure how a make up artist knows how to fight actually.
    Sasword - Tsurugi is from a family with a legacy. Jiiya probably taught him a few things here or there or he learned and took lessons.
    Gattack - character development, plus he's always struggled to become stronger.
    KickHopper and PunchHopper - Went to hell.
    Movie Riders - They're either Zect or Neo-Zect.
    Den-O - Ryotaro doesn't even come into his own until the end and left all the fighting up to the Taros.
    Zeronos - He's strong. Somehow, that's part of his character. Also, when he appeared, it looked like he summoned lightning for his debut, and that was never explained again.
    Gaoh - Timejacking before it was Zi-O.
    Nega Den-O - Imagin.
    Yuuki - This dude's supernatural.
    New Den-O - He's strong that's part of his character, like Zeronos (by the way, if you haven't noticed, everytime I say being "strong" is part of their character, it's sarcastic and meant to mean it doesn't make sense. Just as much as "strong female characters" where their only defining quality is how physically strong they are). And there to look like the opposite of Ryotaro.
    Kiva - already explained that above.
    IXA - Trained Fangire Hunter.
    Saga - King of the Fangires, a race that preys on humans. Yeah, this explains itself.
    Dark Kiva - Armor of the Kings, anyone?
    Rey - agent of an organization.
    Arc - Possession-ex-machina.
    Decade - Well, it's Decade.
    DiEnd - Whatever Decade does, he rolls with it, somehow.
    Kivala - Because we needed a place where the inception of the Tsukuyomi incident happens.
    Abyss - Undead.
    W - I'm pretty sure two souls fighting together somehow gives the body certain abilities it didn't normally have. Plus, Phillip learns quickly, and Shotaro is trying to be hard-boiled.
    Accel - Cop.
    Eternal - NEVER.
    Skull - Hard-boiled badass detective who occasionally puts his life on the line to solve crime? I'll let this one slide.
    OOO - Okay, this one might not pass. Eiji was a hobo and peace lover. He wasn't established as an adroit like Takumi was, but living as a hobo day to day means he has to adapt, SOMEHOW. I think they stretched this one a bit too far.
    Birth - Date kinda came out of nowhere, and seemed like a perfect fit due to his actor's fitness, despite the fact that Gotou is supposed to be one who was trained by the Kougami foundation.
    Poseidon/Aqua - Future Kamen Rider before the Zi-O did Future Riders? Not much of an explanation here.
    Fourze - Attempts at emulating high school themed punk? Yeah, I dropped this show after he got the Elek Switch, and the only things I saw are clips here and there, so I have no idea if Gentaro even trained or anything.
    Meteor - Apparently he's supposed to be emulating Bruce Lee, which I find hilarious and annoying since it's so far off or trying too hard.
    Nadeshiko - alien-space thingy?
    Wizard - He's a magician, and honestly, I don't believe Haruto's actor can pull off those mid-air cartwheels his armored self could. So, Wizard lost me on it's believability, even if Haruto has to somehow constantly fight against his own despair.
    Beast - Well... Nitou kinda has to SOMEHOW get good cause his life depends on it.
    White Wizard - Well... Carbuncle Phantom anyone?
    Secondary Wizards - Well, they're pretty much the RiotTroopers aren't they? I didn't even include RiotTroopers on this list, but I thought they were kinda bullshit.
    Kamen Rider Sorcerer - well, Villain and Phantom.
    Gaim - Kouta dances, and does parkour (at least his actor has experiences in it) Plus, he slowly comes to learn how to use the Sengoku Driver more efficiently.
    Kaito - Grew up in a bad home, became an orphan, had to fight his way through life.
     
  3. Japaneseseriesfan

    Japaneseseriesfan A simple passerby...

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    Michi - Cowardly, and he's shown to not be a great fighter either, but is a great tactician until he gets his hands on the Genesis Driver, it's power becomes a moment that cements his willingness to do dirty things. The point when he gets Yomutsuheguri Arms you can clearly see this guy's already gone through so much to the point that he's developed some sense of fighting skill.
    Gridon - one of the most cowardly Riders, doesn't even have a decent fight scene honestly, and that's fighting of his character.
    Kurokage - kind of a punk already, but isn't skilled either.
    Zangetsu - Obviously, Takatora lived by the "Noblesse Oblige" motto.
    Duke - Ryoma has shown he's capable of at least SOME fighting skills, but even he isn't some great fighter. It's more on the basis of his Genesis Driver being much stronger than the Sengoku Driver in how much power it puts out.
    Marika - She obviously knows how to fight. Literally, "strong female character" that isn't sarcastically thrown in.
    Sigurd - Well, Sid deals in the underworld. It's reasonable enough to believe he's dirtied his hands before.
    Knuckle - He's part of Kaito's group. Pretty sure Kaito said he only surrounded himself with the strong.
    Bravo - Former Military.
    Gaim Movie Riders outside of Kurokage Shin - Not human.
    Idunn - Zawame's Children, experimented on and pretty sure she picked up some skills of her own.
    Tyrant - I actually have a hard time believing this character's skill a bit, but hey, he turns into an Inves.
    Jam - not human.
    Black Baron - I believe I can't keep saying "punk", but obviously that's how his written.
    Savor - Well, dead, he's somewhat supernatural with the power of the Zakuro lockseed.
    Drive - Cop.
    Mach - Trained in America.
    Chase - Roidmude.
    Heart - Roidmude.
    Brain - Roidmude.
    Dark Drive - Roidmude, and originally, Shinnosuke's son. Probably carried on the Kamen Rider legacy from his father.
    Gold Drive - A.I. with Roidmude body.
    Ghost - Dead plus Supernatural powers. I dropped Ghost though, so I can't say much about all of it, although like Fourze, I did watch snippets of it to just get the context of each character.
    Spectre - stuck in the other world and befriended Alan, and a genetically engineered human.
    Necrom - not human, also royalty.
    Zero Spectre and Zero Ghost - Previous Generation of Ghost hunters I suppose.
    All other Ghost Riders - Not Human.
    Ex-Aid - Emu has his M Personality which was always Parado. And a lot of his game knowledge came into play. But I also fail to see why a doctor knows these stunt skills.
    Brave - handpicked for the Gamer Driver. Had to at least undergo SOME kind of training.
    Snipe - Put himself through hell to become a Kamen Rider.
    Lazer - Like Emu, I question why a medical professional knows how to fight, but as much as I like Kiriya's character, I'd like to stop putting the word "punk" or "punk-like" on every character that is just pulling the archetype now without fully being it.
    Gemn- Well, he is the developer of the Gamer Driver. Although, with his actor and that physique, I doubt he's some expert martial artist in real life, however, I do believe in the context of how his character's written, he should be able to prepare himself to become a Rider well enough by training a bit. Obviously, just because someone's acting is pretty convincing as an actor, doesn't mean their physique is completely right for the role they're supposed to be portraying.
    Para-DX - Bugster.
    Poppy - Bugster, although doesn't seem like fighting is her strong suit either.
    Cronus - Masumune is a shrewed businessman, much like Verde. Plus, he doesn't really do much action outside of walking and talking and abusing the Pause button. Any skill he knows is simply picked up through his access to whatever a rich man has access to and decides to spend time and money on it. He does fuse with Gemedeus though. Plus, time being spent in Jail can toughen up someone, unless Masamune is one of those who has a special privilege cell of his own.
    Fuma - well, not really explained.
    True Brave - Game World Hiiro.
    Another Paradox - Bugster.
    Build - Okay, I can't even justify this. Katsuragi Takumi was a scrawny scientist. Just because his appearance has changed and now he's Kiryu Sento, doesn't really mean much.
    Cross-Z - Well, he's a boxer. But then again, his actor's physique doesn't really suggest that. Also, not human.
    Grease - Previously a farmer turned mercenary, pumped up with a high Hazard level.
    Rogue - Dude went through hell.
    Mad Rogue - Cyborg.
    Evolt - not human.
    Build's Father - Researcher, obviously, this bit doesn't make much sense, but it does make sense he'd at least try to become Build.
    Blood - possessed.
    Killbus - Evolt's brother.
    Metal Build - Don't know, haven't seen the Grease spinoff yet.
    Zi-O - Well, he's Zi-O. Not gonna even get into why him or his actor doesn't seem fit for the story at all or why he even knows how to fight.
    Geiz - Part of the resistance against Oma Zi-O. At least he makes sense.
    Both Woz - Part of the Quartzer group.
    Zi-O movie riders - Quartzer group.

    And that brings me to Tsukuyomi. Sure, you can say she's also part of the same resistance as Geiz and has probably fought too, but the writers have almost given her nothing memorable to do, nor have they shown the significant moments she fights back. Despite being written as part of the resistance group, they have never filmed her doing anything much in a fight besides what I mentioned, shooting her gun and never having any effect. So, tell me, how exactly does it make sense, even in a fictional setting, that characters somehow "know how to fight" and "get a fighting style". I'm sure you can debunk some of the characters here I listed and the logic to why they probably shouldn't know how to fight, but I'm sure I've also given some examples as to why they do.
     
  4. Japaneseseriesfan

    Japaneseseriesfan A simple passerby...

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    As you can see by my list though, the "no learned skill or fighting talent" problem began as early as Ryuki, but they weren't a prominent and glaring part of the story structure and didn't have much of an impact on the narrative as much as Tsukuyomi's characterization does. You can probably pick Mihara from Faiz as another symptom, but even then, most characters from then on kinda had a reasonable excuse. I forgot to mention Dark Kabuto, but he's a worm and was experimented on as well, plus was kept imprisoned. Drake doesn't have much of an excuse either. Really, the glaring problem when it came to a main protagonist not really being justified in being able to fight, for me at least, began with OOO, and to that extent, you can also cite Kivala as a glaring problem in the plot and overall narrative as well when it comes to Decade. At least with Den-O, they had Ryotaro slowly becoming able to.

    The whole protagonists not knowing how to fight thing really becomes a big issue with Fourze onwards. Wizard doesn't make you feel like Haruto can fight because his actor doesn't seem believable, Ghost's Takeru has the same complaints from me as Sougo from Zi-O, and to an extent, Emu from Ex-Aid (although I will give them the Parado explanation). It's with Build that thing really took to a whole next level.
     
  5. Kamen Rider IXA

    Kamen Rider IXA Lurker

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    I'd wanted to say that in case of Duke, Ryoma himself isn't really the fighting type and it's the raw power of his hand-tuned Genesis Driver that makes him so strong, but then you have his Gaiden where he fights fine on his own with Sengoku Driver, so yeah.
    Gai was a rich boy as well tbf. And wasn't he doing some Fight Club thing? Also, Raia got his ass handed to him every time, so it's not like show pretended he was good at fighting.
    Imperer is pretty weird case, because he fights in similar style to GekiViolet using some sort of martial art, but show makes it clear that his father throw him out to make a living for himself and he doesn't seem like the guy to have time or money for a proper training.
    Fourze make it pretty clear early on that Gentaro is adept at fighting and physical activities in general. That's part of the reason why Kengo let him use/keep Fourze Driver at all.
    He's a martial artist, yeah.
    She's literally space energy.
    There is one thing I noticed about Ghost early on. It's how Takeru initislly can't really fight against Specter well and gets his ass kicked, but then gradually adjusts and finds a form to counter him effectivly, changing into it as soon as his fights with Specter begin. Even if that wasn't that intentinal and was made for time-saving, I still liked that Ryuki-esque approach of MC actually learning from experience.

    OOO probably gives the least context and the weakest (by which I mean non-existent) justification for MC suddenly learning how to fight, but that's OOO to you. Oh right, now we have Zi-O as well. At least with Ex-Aid show points how that Emu had remains of a fighting-loving Bugster inside of him, that probably helps.

    Honestly I do think that suits' power matter, but yeah, it's usually a good idea to make some sort of an idea of how and why hero can fight.
     
  6. Japaneseseriesfan

    Japaneseseriesfan A simple passerby...

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    The thing about Gai is though, I know plenty of these rich kids from the kind of school I went to. His build as an actor doesn't feel like it screams "fight club" enough to be believable. And even if he was, I knew kids who made a fight club in our school too, well I participated in it, and trust me, half those people don't really know how to fight either. Having money at that young of an age doesn't really mean they can utilize it well enough either. Plus, he's more of a gamer to begin with. I'll give you the Raia point though.

    I don't know, I just don't see Gentaro as much of an adroit as I do with Takumi.

    I can give Ghost that credit, but I also see the Eiyuu Damashi as kinda useless and pointless in the sense that they kinda don't really fit nicely together as part of Takeru's growth, and that they don't seem to be an idea that works in the overall narrative of things against the Gammas outside of "Heroes vs Villains!"

    I can give the suit giving people powers, but definitely not magically giving them knowledge of martial arts and distinct fighting styles.
     
  7. Hangyakuno

    Hangyakuno Lurker

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    Well martial art need mind and body strong enough to perform their usefulness. If you watch movement from Aikido or Judo repeatedly, I'm sure you can remember its move quickly but i'm not sure you can do it for real without train muscle or precision you need to apply to your opponent.

    That is why I presume Rider power give Kamen Rider, muscle they need, sense they need, to move like they can't before. Godai was only brute fight against monster and when he transform, suddenly his move get smoother and refined, he even did a martial artist pose. Of course, because there is someone else in the suit. Eiji was surprised when Batta medal power give his leg power boost and start to do some aerial flurry kick. My point is, martial art is already in their own brain, they just didn't have power or mind to actually do or remember that before they get power. Something like protagonist in movie "Limitless" do. Sometime they need time to progressively accustomed with its power, sometime they just get it from first time.

    You know Tsukuyomi was in Resistance Army, right? To become exactly an effective resistance, they must be have an opponent they can actually beat. Not just an Ohma which one side slaughtered them. Tsukoyomi must be used to be in middle of battle with this grunts. Just like I commented before, if gunfight at mid range still not enough for you, she actually did some brawl even though it was surprise attack (sliding kick/tackle?) or get overpowered by monster. We still haven't see how Kamen Rider Tsukoyomi fight, it can be another gunfight but if she did some martial art, which probably limited move anyway, there is nothing wrong because she maybe already have it in her after long terrible life experience with Resistance Army. Just like how peaceful man living in peaceful era Godai can dare to do beatiful aerial kick or blast trough human eater monster with Bike after get much power.
    It is still not make sense, eh? Well, it is fictional, actually if they can give some logic or cause behind it, then it is enough. I'm still struggling with the fact about how Jojima Yuki can be astronout, but Fourze at least give some pointer with link between her school and NASA, added with time gap to make her somehow have ability to be one.
     
  8. Japaneseseriesfan

    Japaneseseriesfan A simple passerby...

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    Limitless is a bad movie to cite for that, in the sense that it's a myth that you only use 10% of your brain, and taking some kind of drug doesn't suddenly grant you access to instinctively mimic something you've seen before almost perfectly.

    And also, again, I already said this before. The suit does not magically "give you the muscles", especially not in the cases of technology based Riders. With Kuuga, it makes sense. You realized the reason he was in pain after putting on the Amadam is because his body was rapidly burning since it was trying to make his body grow more muscles to be more fight to become Kuuga, right? I also already cited that Godai has over 2,000 skills, regardless of whether or not he lived in times of peace doesn't matter. He's been shown to train as well, and there's the whole seeing visions of previous Kuuga, and to an extent this applies to Agito, in that the origin of their power are beyond space and time in a sense, so being spiritually transferred powers has more of an impact that simply using a technological system. I can refer you to the concept of reincarnation in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Sikhism, where people recall previous lives they've lived or somehow have skills they never learned anywhere before (probably from a previous life), which is something to be more of the case here. Something like the IXA system doesn't do that, it doesn't grant you muscles. It's technology vs Spiritual/metaphysical/magical powers. The Jiku Driver is a technology. It's not a magic muscle giving device.

    The transformation device of early Heisei Riders have a PHYSICAL impact and change in their physiology as a whole, with Ryuki breaking that mold for a bit, but came back with Faiz (You need Orphenoch DNA or BE an Orphenoch) and Blade, constantly fusing with the Undeads will turn you into an Undead. Hibiki, their bodies need to be at a limit of human capabilities to become Onis.

    I also already said just because Tsukuyomi was in the resistance, doesn't mean shit. I'm talking about what they FILMED and WRITTEN. Tackling and what not is still not fighting skills. Anyone can tackle. We have not seen Tsukuyomi do anything that can even levitate her into the level of knowing how to fight. Just because it is part of her synopsis and backstory sheet, doesn't mean they filmed it properly or SHOWED us enough of it to make it believable.

    Limitless might be a good movie (to a certain extent), but it's entire premise is based on a falsehood. You need to become accustomed to fighting, it's not like the NZT drug is something that downloads skills into your brain like in The Matrix movies (and even there, when Neo "knows Kung Fu", he still doesn't have enough proper training with that his body inside the Matrix is accustomed to it enough).
     
  9. Japaneseseriesfan

    Japaneseseriesfan A simple passerby...

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    Also, do you seriously think someone in the resistance would dress like Tsukuyomi does and be able to fight? Like, at least with Marika whose actor is a real life martial artist, she makes sense to be able to find her balance in fighting with high heels on. Tsukuyomi on the other hand? Please. She's just another pretty face they casted and dressed poorly for the role, which is the same with all these pretty boys who don't look like Rider-material one bit.
     
  10. Hangyakuno

    Hangyakuno Lurker

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    You can't bash Limitless logic just because it not based on real life. We are not watching documentary here.
    Alright, for something to be fictional, they must have their own logic, their own fiction not a fact. We, as viewer, can only insert a bit logic to their own logic just to understand what they didn't show to us.

    Seriously you even use reference from Matrix which use their own imaginary fiction to create their fictional world. You can't inject knowledge to your brain using jack cable, you will die. Ask Keanu Reeves, he never actually get those knowledge, Nero did. Rather than using Marika actress real background as reason for her highheel ultra balancing, actually I prefer Marika character fictional background which have her nurtured to be a spy and even used to climb high building with minimal equipment.

    Tsukuyomi , in world of TV series of Kamen Rider Zi-O, are a resistance, capable to fight, ranged and close fight, survive long war with Ohma Zi-O army attack then decide to follow Geiz to change the past. That is their imaginary fact which only valid in their imaginary world. I understand you want to critize their lack of tension to build her transformation into Kamen Rider because i feel it too. Honestly I don't understand your theory about good writing, but for me, as long as it gets me feel amazed while watching it, then it is all good. The only disappointment i have about Kamen Rider Tsukoyomi was because it happened so late and usually it get bad end. I'm still remember Kengo Fourze and Mage group which only become victim of final boss.
     
  11. Japaneseseriesfan

    Japaneseseriesfan A simple passerby...

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    Actually, I can bash Limitless's logic because it perpetuates a myth that is false. You don't know if the people who just watch movies casually will go on to spout this nonsense of "You only use 10% of your brain" in public as if it's fact because the movie acts like it is and doesn't do anything to try and tell you it isn't. In fact, you can't rely on "oh it's fiction, therefore it can't be real", well, then why are good stories able to pass on morals and messages that ring true to life? Art exists as an imitation to life, therefore, it must be constructed in such a way that something can be gained from it, not just mindless consumption. This is partially why stupid stories rise to the top like those Fast and Furious franchises despite the fact that Torreto should be dead by the amounts of shit he pulls in those movies. He literally Superman'd himself out of so many impossible situations it's ridiculous.

    Do you understand that all you just said was "It's fine, because I'm turning my brain off when I'm watching this because it makes me feel awesome about seeing unrealistic things?"

    Storytelling was around as long as humanity is. They exist as a construct to help pass down morals and objective truths that can be considered universal through metaphors and other literary devices. A story needs to have it's own COSISTENT LOGIC that can be understood and compared to normal logic, even if it's a made up magical system like Nen from Hunter x Hunter, it still operates on the basic understanding the writer has of real world and psychology as well as spirituality and how spiritual powers is portrayed in media as well.

    How do you know you can't inject your brain to a cable? You do realize that The Matrix is a futuristic Sci-Fi film, right? Who's to say the machines didn't figure out how to puncture a human's brain and enter the central nervous system without damaging it and still pass enough electrical pulses into the neurons to send signals that can be turned into information learned? Are you aware of a man named Phineas Gage? That man lived with a pole that went through his skull and certain parts of his brain, and still lived.

    Keanu Reeves not knowing those knowledge is irrelevant, he's an actor, he SHOULD do his research to portray those things faithfully, and I assure you, the Wachowskis made sure people in the film crew were MADE to read the materials they suggested before approaching the script to even understand the higher concepts they were going for.

    Which brings me back to Marika. You can't interject a preference for the character history if the actor is not able to pull it off to begin with. That's why they got her and was able to write a part for her like that. This is why you hire actors who are skilled and talented because they trained to make their backstory even believable enough in the first place.

    You do understand that good storytelling is good because it has something that can be passed on to it's viewers/readers that they CAN believe, right? Otherwise, you'd end up with something called the Burden of Proof, something that comes along with people making Extraordinary claims like they "met God" or "talked to God". There's the Burden of Proof you are subjected to. In this case, the burden of proof for Tsukuyomi is her character not being written properly, the choices made for her dressing code, and the actor who they picked for her role. NONE OF IT IS BELIEAVBLE. That's why it's an asspull, and can be considered bad storytelling to begin with.

    A good writer who knows how to do good storytelling is someone who is proposing something that hasn't been explored before by humanity as a new objective take on a subjective topic. Zi-O's writers can't even hold a candle to that. They're just writing badly planned out fanfiction.
     
  12. PowerPhantom245

    PowerPhantom245 Lurker

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    The answer to how some gets stronger when becoming Rider is very simple.
    To quote Mermaid Man from "Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy V", "Power's all in the costume (Rider Suit)! Why else would we run around in colored undies?". :D
    It's all in costume. Plain and simple. :p
     
  13. Japaneseseriesfan

    Japaneseseriesfan A simple passerby...

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    ^ Yeah, no. Parody comedy logic isn't applicable. I'm with Black Fang when he said it on the whole "it's so stupid it's awesome" train of thought has to go away in the fandom.
     
    Black Fang and PowerPhantom245 like this.
  14. Toku Prime

    Toku Prime Member

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    <Looks around>
    No, we're not.

    The entire series has been about these watches that represent/contain people's powers. Tsukuyomi's own time control powers have been a feature of the show for a good proportion of the series too. So the idea that there's a watch for her powers seems like quite a straightforward development.

    She does nothing except transform in episode 48. The preview for episode 49 has one shot of her transformed, and all she's doing is extending her arm out as if to use her time control power. This episode talks at great length about how she'll be the one to end the world, so it's quite possible that the armor simply restores and/or enhances her powers and she spends the next episode doing that while the other Riders rush into battle (a shot that was in the preview).

    It's also possible that she will get to fight and just uses energy attacks, magical girl style, or continues to just use a gun.

    My point is, we haven't seen her suddenly become a martial arts expert. You're writing entire essays about something which you presume will happen. Maybe you'll be right, maybe not.¯\_(ツ)_/¯ As you pointed out yourself, it's something that happens all the time in toku anyway, so it hardly seems like a big deal.
    You do understand...that comments like this are really patronizing...right? :rolleyes:
     
    SamuraiEchidna likes this.
  15. Japaneseseriesfan

    Japaneseseriesfan A simple passerby...

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    ^ You realize you can't speak for everyone when you said "no we're not", right? Do I have to tell you to not go Captain Shark on people about that as well? Clearly, eve Hangkyakuno came to argue for her fighting abilities despite the fact that even he/she doesn't know if Tsukuyomi will fight and have a fighting style of her own or not. So it wasn't just me who was assuming things, if anything, people who agree and disagree with me on Tsukuyomi being a writer making sense ALL assumed she was gonna fight now that she has a suit.

    And... you do understand that 60% of communication between humans is body language, some other percentage is voice and tone of speech? To claim that I said that in a patronizing way just because it's written in that sense is really shallow man. You realize that people CAN say sentences that if written doesn't look so good when read, but can mean entirely different things when they themselves say it because of their way of going about it, right?
     
  16. Hangyakuno

    Hangyakuno Lurker

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    In case you forgot.
    My point is, whatever Tsukuyomi can do after become Kamen Rider, was actually alright. She already show that she capable to fight although limited, have background of magical tribe (already gained back some of her power) and even experience a long war against terrible Ohma while only armed with a stun gun. There is so much freedom to choose what kind of fighting style she will have. Maybe she will use gun or did magic attack like Ginga or use hand-to-hand combat, she have every background to do that. She never win before and always get cornered by monster, yes, but she always ready to fight back.

    Most of Heisei Main Rider is rare to be a martial artist as character (Only Tendou which show he actually training to fight, Hibiki too but more like stamina training), they only showed to have a bit fighting skill. Few of them just very physically talented or have magic or monster oriented. And that is all they need, Rider power will give them every power needed to make their fighting style useful.

    After all this pointless argument, i think you over-analyze this. Kamen Rider Show have so many limit to its writing. In fighting department, they can't show any fight which can be dangerous when imitated by kids. Every fight will decided by bunch of CGI and explosion.
     
  17. Japaneseseriesfan

    Japaneseseriesfan A simple passerby...

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    No, I didn't forgot. But you also vouched for Rider suits magically giving people fighting powers who didn't have it before. Just because you make one statement about not having seen her fight yet, doesn't mean you also didn't vouch for the fact that Rider suits should give people who have no experience in fighting some kind of fighting style.

    I see my list flew over your head, where I specifically mentioned where magical giving people power is applicable, and where it isn't. Tendou isn't the only one shown to have training, and Hibiki's Riders trainings aren't all about stamina. Ryotaro also had episodes dedicated to him trying to become stronger by training so Momotaros doesn't have to step in all the time.
     
  18. Toku Prime

    Toku Prime Member

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    There's been some new personnel announcements for the upcoming V-Cinext 'Kamen Rider Zi-O NEXT TIME: Geiz Majesty'.

    Sharp-eyed viewers may have already seen Kaito (KR DiEnd) in the announcement trailer, and it seems that he's not the only returning secondary Rider. Also returning are Kusaka (KR Kaixa), Ryu (Kr Accel), and Date (KR Birth).

    As expected, Geiz's fellow Riders, Zi-O, Woz, and Tsukuyomi, will all appear. As will the three Time Jackers.

    The film is being directed by Satoshi Morota, who was the head director of KR Ghost. It was written by Nobuhiro Mouri, who was a seondary writer on the Zi-O.

    The film will have a limited cinema run at the beginning of next year before being released on April 22nd on DVD and BluRay.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  19. Hangyakuno

    Hangyakuno Lurker

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    I vouch for liberation of whatever path writer choose for how Tsukuyomi will fight. You limit it.

    There is no scene Hibiki teach martial art, he did self training which consist only muscle training (Stamina, flexiblity, agility) and how to use pure sound (musical tool). Most of their main enemy was giant. And they weak against sound, not punch or kick. Hime Douji also rarely fight and mostly overcomed by different of power.
    Den-O Liner Form training was stamina training, they only need Ryoutarou strong enough to swing his sword.
    There is clumsy rider indeed, which after transform have less ability to fight, still they can fight with some basic kick and punch against grunt monster. The difference is, after they transform their attack did some damage to them. Den-O was perfect example. Ryoutarou have zero ability to fight, but with Liner Form, he manage to kill Imajin with one strike. Only duck to avoid, jump to keep distance, dash and strike to hit. His downfall was stamina, hence Momotaro tell him to train his stamina so they can use Liner Form longer.

    Geiz Majesty basically is Zi-O but using second rider. I wonder if their reappearance is because Geiz have to travel to every of their timeline or they just called by Diend. Or Another Diend.
     
  20. Toku Prime

    Toku Prime Member

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    Judging by the coat, it looks like Date decided to become a doctor after getting that bullet out of his brain.
     

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